Mu the Motherland Podcast
Mu the Motherland is a conceptual or mythical land often associated with lost civilizations, ancient wisdom, and deep cultural roots. Drawing inspiration from the legend of the lost continent of Mu, it symbolizes a primordial homeland—rich in history, spirituality, and ancestral knowledge. Whether explored in literature, philosophy, or artistic expression, Mu the Motherland evokes themes of origin, unity, and the deep connection between humanity and the earth.
Mu the Motherland Podcast
Egyptian Pyramids: Ancient Chemical Production and Laboratories
What secrets lie beneath the silent façade of Egypt's ancient pyramids? Conventional wisdom tells us they were tombs for pharaohs, but a revolutionary theory suggests something far more extraordinary—they may have been sophisticated chemical factories.
The Red Pyramid at Dahshur presents the first clue. Its bizarre internal layout features two lower chambers connected by a passage and a third chamber high above—an arrangement that makes little sense for a burial site but aligns perfectly with a chemical processing facility. Chemical staining on the walls, commonly dismissed as bat guano, shows patterns consistent with gas flow and chemical reactions. Most compelling is the ammonia smell still detectable in the highest chamber, pointing to an ancient industrial process.
Jeffrey Drum's groundbreaking research proposes that these massive structures operated as ammonia production facilities. The process would have involved filling the lower chambers with water to create isolated reaction zones where methane underwent steam reforming to produce hydrogen. These gases would then react with atmospheric nitrogen in subsequent chambers to form ammonia—a crucial component for agriculture and bitumen processing. Remarkably, this three-chamber configuration bears striking resemblance to Fritz Haber's original apparatus for modern ammonia production, suggesting an ancient knowledge that may have inspired modern chemistry.
This theory extends beyond the Red Pyramid to encompass an integrated industrial complex. The Step Pyramid at Saqqara may have handled methane production, while the Bent Pyramid potentially processed aqueous ammonia into solid fertilizer. The massive scale of these structures would have been necessary to contain the tremendous pressures generated during these reactions, while their composition might have played a role in harnessing and distributing electrical energy.
As we pursue this fascinating alternative understanding of ancient Egypt, we're forced to reconsider our assumptions about past civilizations. Rather than primitive monument builders, were the ancient Egyptians masters of advanced chemistry and engineering? The designation of Egypt as the birthplace of alchemy ("Chem" from "Khem," the ancient name for Egypt) takes on powerful new meaning when viewed through this lens.
Explore this mind-expanding perspective with us and discover how looking beyond conventional explanations might reveal a legacy of technological achievement far more impressive than we ever imagined. Could the pyramids represent the pinnacle of a forgotten science that spanned the ancient world?
The Giza Plateau. You hear the name and right away you picture. You know mystery, ancient secrets.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm, those massive pyramids against the sand Silent.
Speaker 1:Exactly. But what if that silence is hiding something even more incredible than we imagine? Not just tunes, but well, something else.
Speaker 2:That's where we're heading today.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Deep Dive. We take the sources you share with us and really dig into the most fascinating bits.
Speaker 2:And today's Deep Dive. It might just flip your whole understanding of those famous structures Totally.
Speaker 1:One of you sent us a YouTube transcript from Megalithomania UK. Actually it's an interview with Jeffrey Drum.
Speaker 2:Ah, the Land of Chem guy, that's the one.
Speaker 1:And his research presents this really radical theory about what the pyramids, especially the Red Pyramid at Dahshur, were really for.
Speaker 2:So our mission here is to explore Drum's idea, this argument that the Red Pyramid wasn't a tomb but well an advanced piece of ancient industrial tech.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll look at the weird layout. Inside the chemical clues he found how it might link up with other sites too.
Speaker 2:Prepare for some potentially mind-bending stuff. It definitely challenges the standard story.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's jump straight into the Red Pyramid. Then, if you've seen photos, or maybe you've even been inside, the layout is just weird.
Speaker 2:It really is. You've got those two lower chambers right and then that third one way up high.
Speaker 1:And no obvious way to get between them easily. It doesn't exactly scream convenient place to put a pharaoh.
Speaker 2:That's a big point. I mean, think about the standard burial idea. How would you even get a heavy sarcophagus down that super long, narrow passage and then somehow hoist it up to that top chamber? It just seems incredibly impractical.
Speaker 1:Jeffrey Drum thought the same thing. He mentions going inside back in 2017 and just getting this immediate like industrial vibe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not just the layout, though Something else caught his eye.
Speaker 1:The staining.
Speaker 2:Exactly the chemical staining he saw on the walls. Now the usual explanation you hear is just bad guano.
Speaker 1:Right, the classic move along. Nothing to see here, just bad droppings line.
Speaker 2:Which Drum thought was well a bit too convenient, almost like a way to shut down further questions. And it's telling that even official tour guides often aren't allowed inside these places. So, he looked at the chamber design itself differently too. Yeah, he sees those tiered vaulted ceilings not as decoration but as functional Designed to manipulate physics. Basically Think about it If you force something into a smaller volume, what happens?
Speaker 1:Pressure increases.
Speaker 2:Exactly Basic physics. He thinks that tiered design was intentional to help increase pressure and facilitate chemical reactions.
Speaker 1:And he said the staining wasn't uniform. Right, it changed.
Speaker 2:Right. It apparently got darker the deeper he went into the structure. The most intense staining was reportedly up high in that second chamber.
Speaker 1:Which then leads to the highest chamber, the third one.
Speaker 2:Where he actually smelled ammonia, a really key bit of evidence for his theory that this was the final reaction zone.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's try and picture this process. He's proposing those two lower chambers connected by a passage. How does it start?
Speaker 2:So Drum's idea is step one fill both those lower chambers with water.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Fill them high enough, so the water level goes above that connecting passage.
Speaker 1:Ah, so that seals them off from each other?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Creates two separate reaction spaces.
Speaker 2:Precisely Two isolated zones.
Speaker 1:And remember that blocked up hole in the first chamber wall, the one with staining above it.
Speaker 2:Yes, drum thinks that wasn't just damage. He suggests that was the inlet.
Speaker 1:For what?
Speaker 2:Methane gas, a key ingredient even today for making ammonia.
Speaker 1:So they'd pump methane in through that hole and in fact it's blocking out, means it was controlled.
Speaker 2:That's the interpretation. Then, as they filled that first chamber with more water, the methane, which doesn't dissolve well in water, remember, gets pushed upwards.
Speaker 1:Into that tiered vault, less space.
Speaker 2:More pressure Right, getting the conditions ready for a reaction. He even touches on needing a heat source, possibly involving complex ideas about external electric fields, maybe even lightning, but acknowledges that's a whole other layer of complexity.
Speaker 1:Okay, methane pressure heat. What's the reaction in chamber one?
Speaker 2:It looks like the conditions would be right for what's called steam reforming.
Speaker 1:Steam reforming.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you react the methane with steam water vapor at high temperature and pressure. It breaks the methane down into hydrogen gas and carbon monoxide.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then-.
Speaker 2:You lower the water level, those hot high pressure gases hydrogen and carbon monoxide Okay. And then you lower the water level, those hot high-pressure gases hydrogen and carbon monoxide would flow through that connecting shaft.
Speaker 1:Into the second chamber.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and Drum points to heavy staining on the southern wall of that first chamber, right near the passage, as evidence of that gas flow.
Speaker 1:So chamber two Kind of a repeat.
Speaker 2:Sort of yeah, yeah, raise the water level again, more pressure. Now the hydrogen and carbon monoxide react with nitrogen and oxygen from the air. That's also in there.
Speaker 1:Okay, what does that produce?
Speaker 2:This step would generate more hydrogen and nitrogen, but also carbon dioxide.
Speaker 1:Ah CO2.
Speaker 2:Which, unlike methane, does dissolve in water. So the idea is, the carbon dioxide dissolves into the water and could then be drained away somehow.
Speaker 1:Leaving.
Speaker 2:Leaving mostly hydrogen and nitrogen gas.
Speaker 1:The two main ingredients for ammonia H and N.
Speaker 2:Exactly those gases are then pushed up somehow into that final top chamber, the one where he smelled the ammonia.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And Drum also suggests that northern shaft, the one going up towards the outside, maybe that was used to introduce water into this top chamber.
Speaker 1:So you've got hydrogen nitrogen water, maybe some kind of catalyst in the stone itself.
Speaker 2:Plausibly yes, and under those conditions they react to form gaseous ammonia NH3.
Speaker 1:And ammonia gas dissolves really easily in water.
Speaker 2:Extremely soluble, which perfectly explains why he'd smell it strongly in there. As the gas formed, it would dissolve into the water that was introduced.
Speaker 1:Creating a solution.
Speaker 2:Aqueous ammonia Ammonia dissolved in water.
Speaker 1:And then they could drain that solution out Through that pit in the floor of the top chamber.
Speaker 2:That's the theory. He even speculates that maybe the pit was dug later, possibly inspired by finding some kind of original outlet shaft there.
Speaker 1:Wow, Aqueous ammonia but.
Speaker 2:I mean?
Speaker 1:what would they even use that much ammonia solution for back then?
Speaker 2:Well, think about today what's the number one use for ammonia?
Speaker 1:Fertilizer.
Speaker 2:Overwhelmingly. Something like 90% of global ammonia production goes into fertilizers. It completely changed agriculture, helped fuel the industrial revolution. But here's where it gets really wild, Fritz Haber.
Speaker 1:The guy who invented the modern ammonia process.
Speaker 2:That's him His original laboratory apparatus for making ammonia, guess what?
Speaker 1:No way.
Speaker 2:It had a three chamber configuration very similar conceptually to the Red Pyramids internal layout.
Speaker 1:That can't be a coincidence can it? It's pretty striking and Drum found that Haber was actually quite interested in Egypt and the pyramids.
Speaker 2:Seriously, yeah, drum floats the idea that Haber might have actually seen or learned about the Red Pyramids design and adapted those ancient principles for his modern industrial process.
Speaker 1:Mind blown.
Speaker 2:Now there's a difference, of course. Modern ammonia is often supercooled into a liquid. Drum's theory is about aqueous ammonia dissolved in water. Maybe a simpler approach for the ancients.
Speaker 1:Still, the connection is incredible. Is fertilizer the only potential use, though?
Speaker 2:No, not necessarily. Drum also points out that ammonia is used in modern petroleum refining to neutralize acidic compounds, especially in processing bitumen.
Speaker 1:Bitumen like ancient asphalt used for waterproofing.
Speaker 2:Exactly, Widely used in the ancient world, especially for ships. You'd need to treat that raw bitumen neutralize the acids. Aqueous ammonia would work well for that, protecting the wood from corrosion.
Speaker 1:Okay, that makes sense too.
Speaker 2:And here's maybe the strangest part of all Right near the Red Pyramid today, there's a modern petroleum processing facility, an Apache oil facility, I think.
Speaker 1:You're kidding.
Speaker 2:Nope Using aqueous ammonia in its processes.
Speaker 1:An ancient site possibly making aqueous ammonia right next to a modern plant using the same chemical.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that feels significant it certainly makes you pause and think, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:so, okay, the Red Pyramid makes ammonia. What about the other pyramids nearby, like the bent pyramid does drum?
Speaker 2:see them as part of the same system yes, he proposes a kind of production line, almost.
Speaker 1:Like different stages.
Speaker 2:Exactly the theory goes. Maybe the step pyramid at Saquara was involved in methane production or capture.
Speaker 1:The raw material.
Speaker 2:Right that methane gets piped somehow to the red pyramid.
Speaker 1:Which makes the aqueous ammonia.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh, and then maybe the bent pyramid was the next step, taking that liquid ammonia solution and processing it further.
Speaker 1:Into what.
Speaker 2:Possibly into a solid fertilizer.
Speaker 1:So step pyramid, methane, red pyramid, aqueous ammonia, bent pyramid solid fertilizer or something similar like an ancient chemical complex?
Speaker 2:That's the picture he paints. It mirrors modern industry. Actually, Ammonia plants are often built right next to plants that convert the ammonia into urea or nitric acid.
Speaker 1:Makes sense. How would the bent pyramid do that? Make it solid?
Speaker 2:The idea involves using the carbon dioxide. Remember that was a byproduct in the red pyramid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dissolved in the water.
Speaker 2:So transport that CO2 rich water, or maybe just the CO2 gas, to the bent pyramid. Bubble it through the aqueous ammonia from the red pyramid.
Speaker 1:And that makes it Tramonium bicarbonate.
Speaker 2:It's a solid similar to urea, a common solid nitrogen fertilizer.
Speaker 1:And solids are way easier to handle store transport.
Speaker 2:Much easier than large volumes of liquid solution, especially for agricultural use.
Speaker 1:That ties together nicely, but still the size of these things, why build them? So absolutely enormous, yeah, just for this.
Speaker 2:It's a valid question. Drum offers a couple of reasons. First, look at the volume inside, especially that top chamber in the red pyramid. It suggests they were making a lot of ammonia per batch industrial quantities.
Speaker 1:Okay, scale of production. What else?
Speaker 2:Stability and containment, the sheer mass of the pyramid structure would be essential.
Speaker 1:Oh so.
Speaker 2:To contain the immense pressures generated during these chemical reactions, you need something incredibly strong to prevent it from well exploding.
Speaker 1:Right Containing high-pressure reactions needs serious structural integrity.
Speaker 2:Definitely he also connects us back to his research in Japan at Oshidido Ishii Hill. Definitely he also connects us back to his research in Japan, at Oshidido. Ishii Hill With the lightning yeah, when much smaller stone arrangements apparently survived lightning strikes. The pyramids being thousands of times larger suggests to him they were designed not just to withstand lightning but maybe to harness its energy somehow.
Speaker 2:To create those internal electric fields needed for the chemistry that's part of the deeper theory, and also safety containing potentially hazardous gases within that massive stone structure. Think methane, maybe other things produced in related processes he speculates about, like sulfuric acid. Keeping it all sealed in.
Speaker 1:It creates such a strange contrast, though the outside is all sacred geometry, perfect alignments, beauty. Abstract monumentality, yeah, but the inside, according to this theory, is purely functional almost grments, beauty, abstract, monumentality, yeah. But the inside, according to this theory, is purely functional, almost gritty, industrial.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. He describes the internal chambers as not beautiful at all, just designed for purpose. Form follows function, but in a way we never imagined.
Speaker 1:What about the stone itself? Did the type of stone matter beyond just being strong? Drum thinks so he talks about the stones being dielectric.
Speaker 2:the type of stone matter beyond just being strong, drum thinks, so he talks about the stones being dielectric materials.
Speaker 1:Dielectric meaning.
Speaker 2:Meaning they can store an electric field like an insulator, but one that can hold a charge internally.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And the pyramid shape itself might be key. He proposes it could draw up natural electrical currents from the Earth to lurid currents.
Speaker 1:And distribute energy back into the ground. Ground like a giant electrical circuit component.
Speaker 2:Sort of Harnessing those Earth currents could help create the electrical conditions needed inside. And he mentions the network of iron veins under Giza.
Speaker 1:Connecting the different structures.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the Great Pyramid, the Second Pyramid, the Osiris shaft, even the Valley Temple and Sphinx. He suggests these iron deposits could act like grounding wires, safely dissipating the huge energy from any lightning strikes into the bedrock.
Speaker 1:This is incredibly complex. The level of knowledge required is staggering. Who knew this stuff and how?
Speaker 2:That's the million-dollar question, isn't it? The scale alone tells you this wasn't just backyard tinkering. It implies deep accumulated knowledge.
Speaker 1:Were there earlier smaller versions, Tests.
Speaker 2:Drum points to things like the trial passages near the Great Pyramid and maybe the Pyramid of Matum, the one that partially collapsed.
Speaker 1:Ah, so Matum could have been an early attempt that failed. A learning experience.
Speaker 2:Possibly A catastrophic failure that taught them something crucial about the engineering or the chemistry involved. You have to remember the timescale too.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:We've had maybe 300 years of rapid technological change. What could a civilization achieve over thousands of years of observation and refinement? Good point they had time Learning from nature, observing phenomena like maybe seeing lightning strike certain rocks. He mentions volcanic tuff at Oshidido Ishi Hill and noticing the plants grow better nearby.
Speaker 1:Atmospheric nitrogen fixation, basically Nature's fertilizer.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Maybe stone circles were early attempts to replicate that for agriculture.
Speaker 1:Makes sense.
Speaker 2:Or ancient fire cults like in Persia. Maybe they learned about flammable natural gases, methane seeps, which could connect to the step pyramid, maybe being a methane capture device.
Speaker 1:So observation leading to experimentation.
Speaker 2:And he does point to evidence of smaller scale lab work sulfur mining in Egypt back then possible experiments with sulfuric acid. He even found a placard in the Grand Egyptian Museum mentioning laboratories within temple complexes near pyramids housing glassware.
Speaker 1:Glassware like lab equipment.
Speaker 2:Seems like it, and Egypt is often called the birthplace of alchemy, chemia, right Early chemistry. It all suggests a long tradition building up to this massive scale.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's shift focus slightly. Khazar Saga in the Fayyum Desert. That site sounds really weird too.
Speaker 2:It really does and its local name is suggestive.
Speaker 1:Palace of Gold or Palace of the Goldsmith.
Speaker 2:Right. The conventional story is it was for minting gold coins, stamping them, distributing them.
Speaker 1:But the building itself doesn't quite fit. That does it.
Speaker 2:Not according to Drum. He highlights the very strange features these sealed internal chambers or housings, seven of them, A really heavy-duty security door and that back chamber you just can't get into. It's completely inaccessible.
Speaker 1:Sounds more like Fort Knox than a local mint. High security.
Speaker 2:Exactly so. Just something valuable or maybe hazardous was being handled, and Elixa Drum's wife from Ancient Odysseys, noticed something crucial.
Speaker 1:What was that?
Speaker 2:Chemical erosion on the ceilings inside those seven sealed housings.
Speaker 1:Erosion like from fumes or something.
Speaker 2:Erosion On the ceilings inside those seven sealed housing, erosion like from fumes or something Looks like it, and there was a gradient. The erosion was worst in the first housing and got progressively less severe down the line to the seventh.
Speaker 1:A gradient.
Speaker 2:Like steps in a process. That's what it suggests. It lines up intriguingly with the idea of seven stages in alchemy or a chemical process.
Speaker 1:So maybe not stamping gold, but conducting a seven stage chemical reaction sequence.
Speaker 2:It's a very compelling alternative explanation. And that inaccessible back room maybe that's where the final product was stored. Gold may be produced chemically, or some other valuable substance.
Speaker 1:And the fact that no gold coins have actually been found there.
Speaker 2:Kind of undermines the whole palace of gold coin theory, doesn't it Makes it seem more like local lore Drum really thinks more digging is found there? Kind of undermines the whole palace of gold coin theory, doesn't it Makes it seem more like local lore Drum really thinks more digging is needed there?
Speaker 1:To look for pipes, channels.
Speaker 2:Connections? Yeah, to see if it was part of a larger complex. Flinders Petrie apparently found a sunken pit near the entrance too. There's a big artificially flattened area behind it and this really strange, almost Mesoamerican-looking structure on the hill nearby.
Speaker 1:Hinting at something much older.
Speaker 2:The whole area feels ancient and complex and it brings up the importance of underground networks again. What we see on the surface might just be the tip of the iceberg, like that Latvian mission at Saqqara finding tunnels with GPR.
Speaker 1:It really broadens the picture. So what's Drum focusing on now? Is he still digging into Egypt?
Speaker 2:He and Alexa just did a month-long trip to Japan. Actually he's really interested in stone circles right now.
Speaker 1:Stone circles. How do they connect?
Speaker 2:He sees them as potential precursors, evidence of the origins of this ancient lightning-based technology, the early stages that eventually culminated in the sophisticated chemistry of the Egyptian pyramids.
Speaker 1:So tracing the evolution of the idea from observing lightning and gas seeps.
Speaker 2:To building stone circles, maybe for agriculture, and eventually scaling up to the industrial reactors like the Red Pyramid.
Speaker 1:A global ancient technology network almost.
Speaker 2:That seems to be the direction his research is heading. He's planning trips back to the UK, avebury, scotland, more work in Japan, alongside Egypt. Of course he admits he's just scratching the surface.
Speaker 1:It's not just about the pyramids anymore.
Speaker 2:No, it's about understanding the civilization behind these structures which seem to appear worldwide, but he still sees the Egyptian pyramids as the absolute pinnacle, the highest achievement of this ancient, lightning-powered chemical technology.
Speaker 1:Wow, it really is a completely different way of looking at things. Jeffrey Drum's research. It just turns so much conventional wisdom on its head.
Speaker 2:It certainly forces you to consider the possibility of well highly advanced industrial capabilities deep in our past.
Speaker 1:We definitely recommend you check out his work if this has piqued your interest. His book is the Land of Chem.
Speaker 2:And his YouTube channel has the same name the Land of Chem spelled C-H-E-E-M. Lots of great visuals there.
Speaker 1:He also runs tours in Egypt. Might do something in Japan in the future too. You can find him on Instagram and X not Facebook, apparently and his website is thelandofchemcom.
Speaker 2:It's fascinating stuff. It makes you look at any ancient, unexplained structure and think.
Speaker 1:Hmm, exactly so the final thought to leave you with If the pyramids were indeed giant chemical reactors, what other ancient mysteries might have surprisingly practical but hidden functions? Makes you wonder, doesn't it?